POV-Ray

Tooltip popup for render speed always displays as “Pixels per Second” rather than matching status bar. I’ve noticed it in 3 renders so far. Most of my renders are fast enough not to see any other unit besides PPS, but I should be able to reproduce again if necessary.

The so-called shadow line artifact (http://wiki.povray.org/content/Knowledgebase:The_Shadow_Line_Artifact) which affects objects with a ‘normal’ statement as well as smooth meshes and heightfields can be really annoying sometimes. Currently the only way to remove it is to make the object shadowless, which isn’t a good solution except in very special cases.

This algorithm could remove the artifact: If the actual normal vector of the object points away from the light source (its dot-product with the light vector is negative) but the perturbed normal points towards it (dot-product positive), then ignore the first shadow-test intersection with the object itself.

There are alternative ways of implementing an equivalent functionality:

- Don’t check the condition (if it’s too difficult to check due to how the code is designed) but always ignore the first intersection with the objects itself. This will work properly with closed surfaces but not with open ones, so it might need to be a feature for the user to turn on with a keyword (similar to eg. ‘double_illuminate’).

- Alternatively, don’t ignore the first intersection, but instead ignore the “opposite side” of the object’s surface (again, possibly only if a keyword has been specified). In other words, if we are rendering the outer side of the object, ignore its inner side when shadow-testing, and vice-versa.

- Perhaps simply add a feature to make surfaces one-sided (similarly to how they can be made so in OpenGL and similar scanline rendering systems). In other words, the inner side of a surface is completely ignored everywhere, making the object virtually invisible from the inside. The advantage of this feature would be that it can have uses other than simply removing the shadow line artifact.

When changing the behavior of the render window, “Keep above main”, requires restarting the POV editor to take effect. It would be nice either to get a warning to restart, or to get it to work without restarting.

The current 32-bit linear congruential generator used as RNG in POV-Ray is sometimes quite limited for some purposes and in a few cases its poor quality shows up (as has been demonstrated more than once in the newsgroup). Thus it would be nice if POV-Ray offered additional, higher-quality random number generators, besides the current one (which should probably remain for backwards compatibility). These RNGs could include algorithms like the Mersenne Twister and the ISAAC RNG, both of which have very decent quality and have an enormous periods (while at the same time being very fast).

After a long discussion, the following syntax for specifying the RNG type and seed (which may be larger than 32 bits) has been suggested:

seed(<value>) | seed(<type>, <value> [, <values>])

For example:

#declare Seed1 = seed(123); // Use the current RNG, with seed 123
#declare Seed2 = seed(1, 123); // Identical to the previous one
#declare Seed3 = seed(2, 456, 789, 123); // Use RNG algorithm #2,
                                         // with a large seed (96 bits specified here)

A C++ implementation of the ISAAC RNG can be found at http://warp.povusers.org/IsaacRand.zip

When you instantiate an object several times, eg:

object { MyObj translate -x*10 }
object { MyObj translate x*10 }

POV-Ray will copy that object in memory, at least for most types of objects. Not for all of them, though. Most famously if MyObj is a mesh, it won’t be copied, but only a reference to the original will be used, thus saving memory. (There are a few other primitives which also don’t cause a copy, such as bicubic_patch and blob, but those are naturally not so popular as mesh, so it’s a less known fact.)

AFAIK the reason why referencing (rather than copying) is not used for all types of objects is rather complicated, and mostly related to how transformations are applied to these objects. For example if the object being instantiated is a union, the translates above will be (AFAIK) applied to the individual members of the union rather than to the union object itself.

Copying, however, can be quite detrimental in some situations. For example if you have a huge union, and you want to instantiate it many times, the memory usage will be that many times larger (compared to just one instance). This is sometimes something which the user would not want, even if it made the rendering slightly slower as a consequence. (In other words, better to be able to render the scene in the first place, rather than running out of memory.)

Redesigning POV-Ray so that all objects would be referenced rather than copied would probably be a huge job, and in some cases a questionable one. There probably are situations where the current method really produces faster rendering times, so redesigning POV-Ray so that it would always reference instead of copy, could make some scenes render slower.

So this got me thinking about an alternative approach: How hard would it be to create a special object which sole purpose is to act as a reference to another object, without copying it? This special reference object would act as any regular object, would have its own transformation matrix and all that data related to objects, but its sole purpose is to simply be a “wrapper” which references an existing object. It could be, for example, like this:

object_ref { MyObj translate -x*10 }
object_ref { MyObj translate x*10 }

The end result would be exactly identical as earlier, but the difference is that now MyObj behaves in the same way as a mesh (in the sense that it’s not instantiated twice, but only once, even though it appears twice in the scene), regardless of what MyObj is.

In some cases this might render slightly slower than the first version (because POV-Ray has to apply the transformations of the object_ref first, after which it applies whatever transformations are inside MyObj), but that’s not the point here. The point is to save memory if MyObj is large.

An object_ref would behave like any other object, so you could do things like:

#declare MyObjRef = object_ref { MyObj };

object { MyObjRef translate -x*10 }
object { MyObjRef translate x*10 }

(The only thing being instantiated (and copied) here is the “MyObjRef” object, not the object it’s referring to, so that actual object is still stored in memory only once.)

In some situations it might even be so that referenced objects actually render faster than if the objects were copied because references increase data locality, lessening cache misses.

I believe this could be a rather useful feature and should be seriously considered, unless there are some major obstacles in implementing it.

Front- & Back-end code should be refactored for full Unicode support in scene files and strings.

Currently, array items may only be referenced by their index number (an integer). It would be nice to also be able to assign string values as array indexes, as in other scripting languages.

Someone built a version of Povray with internal support for automatic subdivision of meshes. See:

http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~xwu/Pov-Sub/

Would like to see this feature added natively to Povray.

When rendering in multiple passes (radiosity in my case), the elapsed pixels and percentage, written to terminal
are first displayed like this:
Rendered 126202 of 360000 pixels (35%)
Then on the second stage the output text becomes shorter and you see
Rendered 25344 of 360000 pixels (7%)%)
The contents of the previous status are not erased, so the longer text persists (note the duplicate percentage sign and closing parenthesis). Such a glitch could have more drastic effect in rare cases.

I’m running
Version 3.7.0.RC3 (g++ 4.6.2 x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
compiled for the Arch Linux package.

While familiarizing myself with the code, I found some small changes in the solve_cubic function that lead to a significant speedup.

In my experience, “pow” is by far the slowest function in math.h and replacing it with simpler functions usually makes a tremendous impact on the speed (it’s an order of magnitude slower than sqrt/exp/cbrt/log).

solve_cubic has a “pow” function that can be replaced by cbrt (cubic root), which is standard in ISO-C99 and should be available on all systems. Separate benchmarks of solve_cubic function show this change almost doubles the speed and does not lower the accuracy. As solve_cubic is part of the solution of quartic equation, this improves the speed for many primitives. Testing with a scene containing many torus intersection tests (attached below) I still observed almost 10% speedup (Intel, 4 threads, 2 hyperthreaded cores, antialiasing on, 600×600: from 91 to 84 seconds). And this is for a torus, where a lot of time is spent in the solve_quartic and cubic solver is only called once! Similar speedup should be expected for prism, ovus, sor and blob.

I do believe the cubic solver can be done without trigonometry, but that would mean changing the algorithm, introducing new bugs and requiring a lot of testing. However, the trigonometric evaluation can still be simplified (3% speedup in full torus benchmark).

These changes don’t affect the algorithm at all, they are mathematically identical to the existing code, so the changes can be applied immediately. I also included other changes just as suggestions. Every change is commented and marked with [SC 2.2013].

This sadly does not speedup the sturm solver, which uses bisection and regula-falsi and looks very optimized already.

The test scene I used has a lot of torus intersections from various directions (shadow rays, main rays, transmitted rays).

As emerged as an idea during the discussion of FS#299, an SDL / POV-Ray editor feature would be useful that allows API documentation via formal comments, e.g. in include files:

/**
 * Creates a car object.
 * @param a
 *        description of param a
 * ...
 */
#macro car(a,b,c)
  ...
#end

In addition to the ability of (auto-)generating a documentation file from such comments, an editor window feature would be convenient that allows popup display of a macro’s (object’s / parameter’s / ...) documentation section.

When using OpenEXR output file format, POV-Ray erroneously reports it as “24 bpp EXR” in the message output, while in fact it generates a 3×16 = 48 bpp file.

Dear PovRay maintainers and developers, congratulations for your great RayTracer!

We think that we have found a bug while we were rendering a piece of cloth.

In this piece of cloth were defined two textures, one for one side and one for the another side:

  texture { mesh_tex0_0 }
  interior_texture { mesh_tex0_1 }

• Please: Look at line 77414 of the attached file “test.pov” to see

these definitions in their original context.

We have found some artifacts in the final rendering, in concrete near some wrinkles,
please, look at the attached file “render_artifacts.tga”, I have painted a big green arrow
near the artifacts, maybe you’ll need to do a zoom to see them more accurately.

They are as though the texture of the other side was painted in the incorrect side.

Fortunately, we have a patch to fix this bug (thanks to Denis Steinemann, he made the
implementation for PovRay 3.5, so I have adapted these changes to release 3.6.1)

Although we have found this bug in the Windows and Linux 3.6.1 releases,
the patch was generated in Linux (using the source code release of “povray-3.6.1”).

To apply this patch, inside the parent folder of the directory “povray-3.6.1” execute:

            patch -p0 < other_side_artifacts.patch

And the “povray-3.6.1” will be patched and you will get a console output like this:

 patching file povray-3.6.1/source/lighting.cpp
 patching file povray-3.6.1/source/mesh.cpp
 patching file povray-3.6.1/source/render.cpp

We don’t know if this “hack” is enough smart to apply in the next release,
but we think that it fixes the bug (the artifacts dissapear).

Best regards and thank you very much for your great RayTracer!

On a very long render, around day 24, the elapsed time display becomes incorrect, showing 4294967272d 4294967272h 4294967272m 4294967272s.

Found on Windows 7 64 bits and reproduced on Windows 7 32 bits.
NOT reported on other platforms.

When working with predefined materials, it would be useful to have something like:

#if (!Use_photons)
  #default { interior { caustics 1 } }
#end

#include "my_predefined_materials.inc"

Default medias or IORs could also be useful.

User reported documentation inconsistency. Investigation led to the discovery of a bug in the setting of the current default value.

~source/frontend/renderfrontend.cpp reports the value “3” while ~source/backend/scene/scene.cpp sets a default value of “1”

Before for addressing this issue, are there any thoughts as to what the default value should be?

Due to a typo in the conf file parser (introduced, I think, in refactoring after 3.6), the restricted setting is ignored, and access checks aren’t performed.

Fixing this reveals some other issues:

• %INSTALLDIR%/../../etc is incompletely canonicalized to /usr/local/share/../etc, not /usr/local/etc
• read+write paths are added to the read list only, so writing is impossible

See attached patch.

Relatedly, I think it would be nice to add a new replacement token %CONFDIR% instead of %INSTALLDIR%/../../etc.

Also, there’s a realpath function that could simplify path handling, though I’m not sure if it’s available on all platforms.

pov 3.7 Can not identify the Chinese.I give the texture map filename in chinese,it turns out parse error.

When you press alt+b or access the “about” dialog in the Help menu it displays some text including software version number and list of contributors.

It would be nice to be able to select and copy this text using this mouse. Sometimes in the newsgroup I have to tell people what version of POVray I am using, and typing the version number can be a pain.

It would be nice to be able to specify colors in HLS as well as RGB.

Currently, you can use a macor to convert individual colors. But this does not work in color_maps where you want smooth gradations/interpolations between two or several colors.

This doesn’t work:

#declare pavement_object = array[2]
{

object {trash_can_macro()	scale 3/4			translate -x * 1/2},
object {potted_plant_macro(_CT_rand2)	scale 3/4	scale 3/2	translate -x * 1/2}

}

This does work:

#declare trash_can_object = object {trash_can_macro()};
#declare potted_plant_object = object {potted_plant_macro(_CT_rand2)};
#declare pavement_object = array[2]
{

object {trash_can_object	scale 3/4			translate -x * 1/2},
object {potted_plant_object	scale 3/4	scale 3/2	translate -x * 1/2}

}

Logically, I cannot see a reason for this to be so.

Currently, radiosity does not make use of the fact that pertubed normals would theoretically just require a different weighting of already-sampled rays, leading to the following issues:

• Honoring normal pertubations in radiosity leads to an increased number of samples, slowing down sample cache lookup.
• The increased number of samples is generated from a proportionally higher number of sample rays, slowing down pretrace even further.
• Low-amplitude pertubations tend to be smoothed out; “reviving” these is only possible by increasing the general sample density.
• Handling of multi-layered textures with different normal pertubations is currently poorly implemented.

As a solution, I propose to store for each radiosity sample not only the resulting illumination for a perfectly unpertubed normal, but from the same set of sample rays also compute the illumination for an additional set of about a dozen standardized pertubed-normal directions, and interpolate among these when computing the radiosity-based illumination for a particular point that has a pertubed normal.

For backwards compatibility, this method of dealing with pertubed normals in radiosity might be activated by a different value for the “normal” statement in the radiosity block, say, “normal 2”.

The sphere_sweep renders well when specified directly, but when it is scaled, its bounding box is calculated incorrectly, which clips the object so it almost disappears.

The effect is present for all three types of splines.

I’m attaching a test scene and the rendering result. The saving of the object with #declare has no effect, I just wanted to show both transformed and untransformed version.

I don’t think this issue is related to other artifacts occuring with sphere_sweep, as it is obviously an issue of the internal bounding box.

With very fast renders and very large output files, the message queue can fill up because the producers are not limited by IO, while the consumer performance is limited by disk IO. Consequently, the message queue can fill up to exhaust all available memory. The solution is to build in some better control of pending output data in the message queue on the producer side. This will also pave the way for message communication over slow links (i.e. a network).

Subsurface Scattering still uses its own rudimentary code to compute illumination from classic light sources; this must be changed to use the standard light source & shadow handling code, to add support for non-trivial light sources (e.g. spotlights, cylindrical lights, area lights), partially-transparent shadowing objects etc.

Subsurface scattering must be made photon-aware.

Near concave edges, radiosity samples may be re-used at a longer distance away from the edge than towards the edge; there is code in place to ensure this, but it only works properly where two surfaces meet roughly rectangularly, while failing near the junction of three surfaces or non-rectangular edges, potentially causing “cross-talk”.

It should be investigated how the algorithm can be improved or replaced to better cope with non-trivial geometry.

There is an issue where the pause button in POVWIN will sometimes not work during an animation (primarily where the frame rate is high), and furthermore, POVWIN can then get into a state where it’s not possible to use the pause until it is re-started.

Newsgroup report.

Adding full texture statement support to the background statement (with a scale of 1/1) aligned with the image_map direction of an image would allow i.e. specifying an image as background easily.

The #debug message stream is only being flushed when it hits a newline character,
instead of after each #debug statement. This means that some final strings don’t show up.

#debug "This line prints,\n but this line doesn't."

POV-Ray 3.6, upon encountering problems when parsing command line and/or .ini file options, would quote the offending option in the error message.

POV-Ray 3.7 currently just reports that there is some problem with the command line, without providing any details. I suggest changing this, as the information may be helpful at times.

If a render is continued with the +c option and the render had completed, the render preview window will disappear and the show/hide render window button will be grayed. Even after the scene is modified and the command line options have been changed, the show/hide button will still be grayed.

Opening or changing to another scene and rendering will not restore the button, nor will rendering with +d. However, if a trace is started using -d, halted, then continued using +d (or allowed to finish completely with -d and a new one is started using +d), then the preview window is restored.

This behavior is different from 3.6.1, which correctly always showed the preview window (since +d is default) unless -d was specified.

Some features are optional in custom builds of POV-Ray (I’m thinking about OpenEXR in particular); it would be nice to have a syntax for an SDL script to check for support of such features, so it may take some fallback action if the feature is not supported.

Background

Possible solution

User-defined warps would be nice to have, something along the lines of:

warp {
  function { MyFnX(x,y,z) } // function to compute pattern-space x-coordinate from object-space <x,y,z> coordinate
  function { MyFnY(x,y,z) } // ditto for pattern-space y coordinate
  function { MyFnZ(x,y,z) } // ditto for pattern-space z coordinate
}

// a displacement warp:
warp {
  function { x + MyFnX(x,y,z) }
  function { y + MyFnY(x,y,z) }
  function { z + MyFnZ(x,y,z) }
}

The SDL currently provides no way to compute the exact direction of a spline at a given location, even though mathematically this is a piece of cake: The first-order derivative of any spline section gives you the “speed” as a vector function, and is trivial to compute for polynomial splines (which are behind all spline types that POV-Ray supports); the normalized “speed” vector, in turn, gives the “pure” direction.

For exact direction/speed computations, I propose to extend the SDL invocation syntax as follows to allow for evaluating a spline’s derivative:

    SPLINE_INVOCATION:
        SPLINE_IDENTIFIER ( FLOAT [, SPLINE_TYPE] [, FLOAT] )

or

    SPLINE_INVOCATION:
        SPLINE_IDENTIFIER ( FLOAT [, FLOAT] [, SPLINE_TYPE] )

where the second FLOAT will specify the order of derivative to evaluate (defaulting to 0). In order to compute the position, direction, and acceleration of an object traveling along a certain spline, one could then for instance use:

    #declare S        = spline { ... }
    #declare Pos      = S(Time);
    #declare VSpeed   = S(Time,1);
    #declare VAccel   = S(Time,2);
    #declare Dir      = vnormalize(VSpeed);
    #declare Speed    = vlength(VSpeed);
    #declare AccelDir = vnormalize(VAccel);
    #declare GForce   = vlength(VAccel) / 9.81;

Alternatively, a mechanism may be devised to create a spline representing another spline’s derivative; however, it would be debatable whether the syntax should be parameter-like (being an added information that could be overridden again when creating other splines from such a derived spline), or operation-like (converting the spline), and in the latter case how it should affect spline type (and consequently control points); so the spline invocation parameter approach might be more straightforward, with less potential surprises for the user.

When rendering only a region of a file, using the command-line options +sc/+sr/+ec/+er, the area of the image that is excluded comes out as black in the final PNG.

Expected behaviour is for it to be transparent.

Being able to have functions operate on vectors would be pretty nice to have.

Warnings should be raised when a command line option has no effect,
for example...

pvengine +am

is legal, but without the number after it, it has no effect.

pvengine +am7

should be an error, and also raises no warnings.

There is an big issue with the slope pattern: when the object it is applied to is instanced (again) with a transformation (in particular a rotation, as a translation would not impact.. but a shear might), the colours of the surfaces are changed.

  
object { p translate -5*x }
object { p rotate 220*y+20*x    translate 3*x }       

Nobody would expect the object to be different in appearance.
If slope {} is replaced with wood, all is fine. (as for others textures, i guess)

IMHO, the slope vector need to be adjusted for the later transformation(s) (so as to compensate the issue of using the Perturbed Normal vector).

This should not impact the AOI/FACING (experimental) patterns, as AOI definition is pretty clear about duplicating & transform if you think about it a bit, as well as FACING: for these two, it is expected to either use the ray(current point of view) or a fixed 3D point as reference. At the limit, discussion about moving the 3D point of FACING might also be opened to interpretation.

AOI/FACING are in task #19

Hi,

it would be nice if there exists a test scene (not a benchmark) which has a high coverage of povray source and can be used as correctness validation of povray. It schould be produce an image which can be compared to a golden reference image.

It may be also possible to create a regression test suite which does automatic comparision of the render results.

Most sample scenes and include files were designed at times when POV-Ray did not to any proper gamma handling, or still used the inferior 3.6 “assumed_gamma” mechanism.

All the scenes and include files should be reviewed, and updated to fit the new 3.7 gamma model.

The primary task will probably be gamma-adjusting literal color values and ambient parameters; I suggest using macros (which ideally should be defined in an include file) to be set according to the #version statement, so the scene/include file could be kept compatible with older versions.

motion_blur which is a simple and effective feature to use in Megapov to simulate motion blur of, e.g. bird wings, propellers or running animals, would be a neat addition to version 3.7 and later.

In Megapov, the feature requires a line of code in the global_settings{} e.g.: motion_blur 10, 2
and a declaration for the moving object. e.g.:

motion_blur {
  type 0
  object{MyObject  material{MyMaterial rotate x*clock*2}}
  rotate x*clock*10
}

type represents several types of pre-defined motions.

Thanks,

Thomas

Think this is still a problem. See the attached scene file. Find the WindowFrameSegment declaration for more info. The scene as-is shows the problem (SOME portions of the difference inherit the color of the room) the window opening is scaled larger to show that they AREN’T touching. The problem goes away when (in WindowFrameSegment) the 1st occurrence of the applied texture is commented out and the 2nd occurrence is uncommented, and cutaway_textures is commented out.

Currently, fading light sources are used for lighting and shadow
calculations even when so far away as to no longer have any effect
on the outcome. The proposed solution is to add a new keyword
fade_cutoff_distance which tells povray to ignore the light
source when alluminating a point at larger distance.

A sample implementation is provided in the attached files. These
changes are still based on beta 34 as sources for the current beta
are not yet available, and starting to merge changes to beta 35
only at this time didn’t seem worth the effort. Also, please
disregard, changes in the CVS header comments (I also use
CVS locally for managing source files).

Further considerations regarding this feature:

- For special effects this feature can also be used if the light
source does not actually use fading. On the other hand, cutting
the light at some distances can be considered an extreme form
of fading which may justify the keyword name anyhow.

- Depending on how  FS#46  is implemented, the test for cutoff may
then be needed at another location as well.

- The default value currently is 0 (or *no* cutoff distance). For
#version 3.7 of higher, the default could be chosen automatically
based on the light source intensity and adc_bailout, although it
may then need to be overriden by the user for extreme pigments.

Currently, arrays are of a fixed size. You can’t add or remove items to/from an array. I think it would like arrays to be expandable with no fixed and pre-determined size.

See Notepad++ or EditPad Lite for examples.

It would be nice to be able to drag tabs in the editor window to change their order, so as to group opened files together by relevance for instance.

Would be great if there were a “Rename” option in the editor File menu to rename the current file name. Otherwise, you have to close the file, rename it in file manager, then open the file again, thus loosing the current tab position and undo history for the file.

Would be great to have a “Reload” option in the File menu to manually reload the current file from disk, discarding all subsequent changes since the last save.

I probably don’t have to explain why the camera_view pigment in MegaPOV was important, but I will list some reasons anyway:

1) post-processing could be performed in-scene
2) new types of focal blur effects could be created
3) feedback fractals were possible

I’m sure there are many others, as this is one of those features that has undetermined potential!